Curse

Age · Sep 13, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

If you have beaten the game don't bother replying to this thread.I would have to say it is about time too ease up on all the missions past Sanctum Cay that was a cat walk the rest aren't.This starting with the ascention missions and beyond to Fire Island there are possibly several falling behind the game myself included.I have lost confidence in taking on any missions with out winning it.I have done Dune,Thirsty River more time I care to remeber and Elona and I never win one of them even with good pug.I possibly several others aren't making any progress in the game and are fustrated.

There are those of us who are older as well and may have health problems.I am asking you to look at this from a human POV not a gamers.I have heard from some other older people in the game and they say the missions after Sanctum Cay are rough.We really enjoy your game please let us enjoy it more and on further note how are going to advance our chars. so we can play chapter 2 when it comes out?I hope you are traking our accounts in our progress through out the game so you know where we are and registration including beta.Thanks

Dax · Sep 13, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I mean no disrespect, but I'm a little confused. Are you saying they should make the end missions easier for people who are older (I'm pretty old myself) or for people who have health problems? That I think would be difficult because how would you determine easier and then how does that affect other people. On the other hand I do get kinda tired of really long missions where you can't logoff until you've completed it..... I wish that could be changed.

Mugon M. Musashi · Sep 13, 2005, 11:48 PM // 23:48

maybe make the difficulty more gradual ?

Xonic · Sep 13, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

or make a difficulty setting, like most single player RPGs have.

don't know, just wild ideas.

Teh Azman · Sep 13, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

It's easy if you actually have a good build/are a good player, not saying you're not, some people get unlucky...

But if you're really stuck on a mission for that long, the game might be telling you something.

John Bloodstone · Sep 14, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

The problem isn't really the missions themselves, but random PUGs. It is a pretty well known fact that PUGs are by and large unsuccessful. This comes about because many people simply don't know how to follow instructions, and refuse to listen to more experienced players that can help them.

The best way of getting through a tough mission is to either take henchmen (better than 60% of players i'd say) or find a good guild and never worry about PUGs again.

Algren Cole · Sep 14, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

wow...is this a thread asking to making incredibly easy missions even easier? are you freaking serious dude? There isn't a single difficult mission in this game...8 random skills and the ability to button smash will walk your way through PvE....

IlikeGW · Sep 14, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I feel the opposite, the beginning missions are a wasted chance at educating players and way too easy. You do horrible in the end because you've learned nothing about grouping and tactics by then, but you would if you had to try harder the whole time, believe me.

yesitsrob · Sep 14, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I've completed the game, so sorry for replying, I think one mission which might need to be made a bit easier is Iron Mines (IF you do with Henchies) - the massive disadvatage when you do it with henchies is that they don't get infused.... and spectral agony really tears them a new one, and there are quite a large number of Mursaat bosses at this stage....

I found Elona's difficult with PUGs - but with Henchmen, had no problem (this was before Lina was a henchie in crsystal deser too), it is the most difficult desert mission by far though - Dunes and Thirsty River I found simple. And Dragon Lair is a complete walkthrough too

The Shiverpeak missions I think are easier than Crystal Desert ones - some people found Thunderhead Keep difficult... personally never struggled, plus did bonus first time - may have been a bit of luck, don't know.

Missions on the fire isles... quite difficult, Abaddon's Mouth definitely the hardest I think, other two can normally be done with henchies...

About the health condition thing, I'm sorry but I don't think that should be something Anet should consider - proper gamers like a challenge, and Anet is obviously going to aim their game at... well, gamers, if the game is too easy they are going to lose their main market. Really think, with exception with Iron Mines with henchmen, difficulty is quite good

borkbork · Sep 14, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I have to post since PvE is still a joke.

Game winning solution for PVE: If you're having trouble with pugs, then START taking control if you think you're a good player. I form my own groups, grill the invites, and kick out anyone that brings Mending. If you still keep losing, maybe its time to adjust your strategies.

And if you have trouble with missions, then post somewhere around here for help on how to beat them.

I think the difficulty still has to be ramped up, especially in the beginning missions. They're so easy I've already lost like 10 guild members from boredom. They beat the whole game, and suddenly quit because its just a yawn fest. I managed to save one person by showing him PvP... but that's still pretty damn horrible when you just lost 10 potential teammates for PvP.

Also - I think another tutorial section needs to be implemented. Calling, following targets, watching your aggro bubble. This should come either before or after the PvP fight in pre-searing. If you fail any of the 3 steps, you don't get to move on to post-searing.

Sainte · Sep 14, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

I just went to do Elona on my Monk to help a friend, and we got ownd mass in a PUG while trying to get the first Crys. I used Hench and we beat it in like 10 minutes, going VERY slow, because we were chatting half the time.

Fact: 80% of players are WORST than henches
Fact: 95% of Monks you meet are WORST than Alesia

Sad facts, but thats the population average. These people go to PvP and die in 5 seconds falt, wondering why their Wa/Mo or Sword Monk didnt own everything like it did in PvE

romO · Sep 14, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

have faith in people man. there are a decent number of pve players with a little skill, its just that the problem ones are the ones who just dont listen.

thunderhead keep:
warrior: ele, just stand on top and fire the catapults thats all you need to do.
ele: ok, got it!

10 min later

monk: there are too many guys, i cant keep everyone up, why did this many get past?
warrior: ele, whats wrong?
ele: what do you mean?
warrior: why did all these guys get past?
ele: i dont know
warrior: werent you supposed to be firing the catapult on that side?
ele: whats a catapult?

Dax · Sep 14, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

wow...is this a thread asking to making incredibly easy missions even easier? are you freaking serious dude? There isn't a single difficult mission in this game...8 random skills and the ability to button smash will walk your way through PvE....

Heh, I think you need sensitivity training...lol just kidding.

I was a little confused about this being that it really should be difficult near the end game. But then again I don't think people should be rushed for armor either.

I do agree however the first missions are way too easy and from the mindset of alot of viewpoints I see (not so much the OP) people expect to breeze through this game and get everything they want at any cost.

I do find it an annoyance to have to log off right in the middle of the mission (sometimes you need to go to work or eat dinner), or fail the mission because it is unclear what I need to do just to start over from scratch.

Age · Sep 14, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I would say the best solution is to have res shrines in missions after Sanctum Cay.Most or half players in game don't really like and bypass the missions.When you are as old as I am 40+ you are not as sharp or on ball as you used be although we are more patient.I take very mature attidude when playing the game no they need to be made easier.I know what certian guilds are up to as I listen to the PVP guilds.We have played this game by doing quests well I prefer them as I can take my time not in missions and there are res shrines in them.

In six months Chapter 2 will be out how many will be fineshed Chapter 1 and 6 months is like next week for me.

lg5000 · Sep 14, 2005, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Off topic: Can anyone refresh my memory of exactly how hard the last mission of the game was?

I remember it being past 4am and me healing red life bars... that's it! no memory of scenery or anything else.. from memory, our warrior died a few times, but, that might have been the mission prior. Only memory I have is our ranger pulling a leory jenkins.. to keep us awake, and me swearing my head off at him for that one, promising to not heal him next time he did that.

oh, and we did finish the mission and I got some sleep at 5am

so it can't have been too hard.

The mission, all missions from thunderhead keep onwards, were played with more or less the same group of people, most of who were parents, and a certain lack of artistic skills on mini-map was missing (which is a good thing) and we had common sense used with our warrior being the only one tanking and our ranger pulling.

Yes, the reason we were up that late is because we liked the group at thunderhead and decided to finish the game with it.

Back on topic: I think it's a sad thing that we have that many incapable monks that late in the game, for that matter, that many incompetent players.

Best idea is to make sure you got 2 hours for each mission, and being prepared to spend an hour looking for a decent group and discussing strategy before starting.

Silmor · Sep 14, 2005, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

wow...is this a thread asking to making incredibly easy missions even easier? are you freaking serious dude? There isn't a single difficult mission in this game...8 random skills and the ability to button smash will walk your way through PvE....

You seem to disagree with you.

HunterZ · Sep 14, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Thanks for starting this thread. I should start by mentioning that I'm a seasoned gamer (mostly PC) for whom video games has been my primary hobby my whole life. I'm not a power-gamer but rather a scavenger, squeezing every game for all it has to offer. I also want to mention that my post is not meant to be a ranting, whining list of complaints, but rather constructive feedback from an average player's perspective. Anyways, I put Guild Wars down once my R/N reached Lion's Arch but then picked it up a month or two later when I found out a friend has been playing it. I finally reached the desert (I'm now at the ascension mission but have not tried it yet) and was shocked at the sudden increase in the mission difficulty. I had beaten every mission and every bonus up to that point, and it never took more than a couple of tries. Here are my two frustrating experiences with the desert missions, followed by some thoughts on why they were so hard:

First was the desert mission where you have to kill bosses in a fort for the bonus while the ghostly hero performs a ritual (sorry, I'm on vacation and don't have my strat guide handy - maybe it was Dunes of Despair?). The mission itself was easy (took a couple tries because my team didn't know what to expect), but the bonus was HARD. I spent the better part of a day joining parties and trying for the bonus (probably a dozen attempts) until I finally found a group that new a trick for beating it (the first time my necro secondary class was critically useful to a group).

The second one I had severe problems with was the time-limited quest where you run crystals (maybe Elona?). Took at least a good 8 tries to beat the mission and another half-dozen or more to beat the bonus. Again this took most of a day (I beat both missions during the recent 3-day holiday weekend), which - like the previous one - also involved sitting around begging to be invited into a group and then hoping they knew what they were doing.

I should also mention that I was again shocked when I played the quest where you run around with the ghostly hero attacking snake priests guarded by bosses (Thirsty River maybe?). Beat mission and bonus on the first try. STOMPED on it with an all-Ranger primaries party! This was perhaps the hardest of the desert missions to get into a party for.

Here are some of the things that frustrated me:
- This is the big one, and has been mentioned already in this thread. Many players were not team-players and would not listen or work with everyone else to try certain strategies, even when someone who knew what to do (and what NOT to do!) was trying to help everyone beat the mission. Sorry if this sounds prejudiced, but I noticed that W/Mo's seemed to be especially guilty of this - probably due to a combination of it being an overused class (highest percentage of characters) and a favorite of inexperienced players; it seriously got to the point where I almost refused to group with them because I knew there was at least an 85% chance that they'd run off and aggro all the monsters instead of sticking with the group to tank for spellcasters and ranged attackers (not to mention not carrying healing spells or at least a res signet). In Elona we had a W/Mo (or some W primary anyways) that decided to go off and run the quest himself while we were in the middle of fighting the boss guarding the second of the three crystals; as a result, half of the party followed him while the remaining three were stuck fighting the boss because they couldn't get away. Fortunately, the W later died from running off again while we were returning that crystal, and he decided to desert - this turned out to be the time that I finally beat the mission!
- I saw a lot of people deserting (warping back to town) during the mission, dooming us to failure. BUG: sometimes if people bail (log off maybe?) at just the right time when the group fails back to town, the AWOL player will become a permanent grey entry in the party. The only way to fix this is to disband and re-form the party - very annoying!
- A lot of group leaders are too picky about the class makeup of their parties when recruiting. I see many 4 or 5 person parties sitting in town because they want a Monk, while lots of non-Monks are begging for invites. I have also had great success in parties without Monks (or at least without Monk primaries) - my Thirsty River experience is an example. I know you'll say "form your own group" but the problem is that it's doomed to take many tries if I don't join someone else who knows the mission already; it also means having to re-recruit around 40% of the party every time I fail.
- Despite what some may say, I know a majority of people would agree that the desert missions themselves were just harder than the previous missions when played in the same way that I had been playing them up to that point - which is to say that I would join a party of all human players (except maybe for a healer hench) with someone who knew what they were doing and would stick with them until we beat it. I also consult my strategy guide when the leader gets lost.

On a side-note, I should add that I felt that the whole desert area of the game felt less polished and more disjointed than the rest of the game up to that point. Previously, quests would take me from town to town or town to mission, but in the desert I found that I had to use my strategy guide maps to run from location to location because there were no quests to point me in the right direction. I was supposed to just *know* that they were out there. I did later notice that the Ghostly Hero would give me a general idea of what to do if I talked to him in the various towns, but he should have assigned quests so that I'd have known to talk to him (most NPCs up to that point had little useful to say unless I was directed to talk to them in relation to quests).

There was also no explanation of how to use the desert teleporters. It seems obvious once you've figured it out or had it explained by another player, but it could have also been better handled (IMO) via an NPC tutorial or somesuch.

In summary, some of the desert missions and/or bonuses were much more difficult in my opinion, and I do agree that both the quality of players and the design of the missions were major factors. My guess is that during development the devs only tested the whole desert chapter of the game with teams of players who cooperated closely to beat the missions.

Grigori Sokolov · Sep 14, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

The problem with monks is, there are so many of them, and about 10% are actually competent healers. Furthermore, even if you are in a group with a monk, unless there is only one, there is no way of telling which one is good and which is bad! Ive solo healed FoW before, but I have joined groups that its actually harder to heal than that! Its so hard to tell whos good and who isnt. Even with /rank it is hard because of fame farmers (read: IWAY builds who never get past The Courtyard) and people who buy accounts on ebay (I know its there, and Im not going to bother looking for it).

Sekkira · Sep 14, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27

HunterZ:

You managed to get all the mission names right for the Desert. Also, yes I'd have to say the bonus for Dunes of Dispair is quite tough even with a good group of players.

The missions aren't too hard all in all, but they really try to push the concept of team play in the desert to prepare you for the later missions and PvP. (it's amazing the amount of people in Thunderhead Keep that completely forget all they learned in the desert). It's even put into the story of it as well. The Elonians fell apart because "We did not trust each other. Not even our own kin." and put forth that you'd end up just like them, with bleached bones and as spirits in the wasteland if you didn't work together to achieve a common goal.

Sekkira · Sep 14, 2005, 04:45 AM // 04:45

It takes more than just 8 random skills and the ability to button mash. Perhaps this mentality is the reason why you can't make it past it, or at least having a difficult time.